www.evernote.com/shard/s313/sh/d0217983-e75a-4d4e-835f-4aeb43f5c92f/26710c271777fee2599f047646b49c04
Considering the CN rail line vs. the CP rail line, after the four Metrolinx options for the Lakeshore East GO expansion, which were made public May 24, 2019 and forwarded to Ontario Transportation Minister Jeff Yurek for a decision:
I would like to thank Robert Bell for the discussion he opened on his Facebook page Friday May 24, 2019.
Below is an except, beginning from where I started commenting on Robert's page late Saturday, involving Robert, Brian Nicholson, Mark Little, Brent Regnier, James Rogers, and Greg Anderson, whose comments, with mine, are posted below:
I wanted to share our dialogue on my own blog and Facebook page because I believe, like many others, it is a matter very important to many Oshawa residents personally, and to the future of our City.
_____
Rosemary McConkey I am the only member of Council saying get it done and if the Province is planning a CN extension don’t have a hissy fit. Municipalities are creations of the Province and let's make the best of what seems to be in the works. Transit is about moving people, this ‘economic impact’ does not make a station on the CN line vs a CP line so inferior. Oshawa citizens need to not see this extension delayed and the CP line will be far off and crazy expensive. I heard just yesterday the cost of the bridge over the 4O1 will be in something like $500 million. Development of the Fittings property, Trent Durham, and the downtown is moving ahead... so some politicians may feel they lose face reversing their stand, reality is if we want jobs in Oshawa it's time to concentrate on getting business here and promote the Knob hill property as a site for something special, not a transit hub. Besides a station on Bloor near Ritson will increase property values south of the 401... instead of thinking the worse. look for new positives!!
Robert T Bell Yes size the opportunities as they come forth!
Brian Nicholson Seizing empty space leaves you with a handful of nothing.
Robert T Bell I is it empty space or an opportunity to build. He who hesitates is lost.
Mark Little The problem is Rosemary we were promised the CPR route from day one. People have been aware of this for a decade or more and the folks at Metrolinx have spent a lot of money on the Knob Hill property and other developers have followed suit.
Brent Regnier It's starting to appear that many here a somewhat stuck in a place of the past...not able to see the oppurtunitys that lay ahead…Mark who says we can only have two stations more can always be added.in the future! The south end needs development and a more dense city pays for its share of the line…so what if the jobs that come here are tech jobs or homes for folk that work in Toronto! Brian wants to stop the sprawl well then he wants higher density of population obviously and what better place to give him his wish than in his own ward! Win win fo4 everybody!
I would like to thank Robert Bell, Brent Regnier, Mark Little, Greg Anderson and Councillor Brian Nicholson for joining in this exchange of opinions Saturday evening. Our discussion follows from the recently released 4 Metrolinx options for the GO Lakeshore East extension. Robert started the thread yesterday, I joined in late, but spent considerable time commenting as this is obviously an important issue for Oshawa.
Brian Nicholson No, Rosemary, with respect, you are the only member of Council who would accept the wrong plan for our community. If you want to accept the loss of 21,000 spin-off jobs and over 6000 new residential units in Oshawa, that is your right. I want these jobs, I want these new units. I want to see growth and prosperity result from making the right choice for Oshawa and Clarington. I am tired of seeing Oshawa tax dollars spent in Mississauga, Toronto, Brampton and all other communities westward. We need to stand together as a team to demand that the promises made become the promises kept. Ford claims the "Ontario is open for business". It appears this means only if you live west of the Don Valley Expressway.
Robert T Bell Yes I could see even more opportunity, especially for south Oshawa, with the GM land CN route
Rosemary McConkey Thank you Brian and with respect there is no crystal ball that says jobs and growth will be lost with a GO station less than 1 kilometre south on the CN line... and we can have it within a much shorter time frame on the CN line rather than much longer or maybe never on the CP line
Brian Nicholson Rosemary, where is the site of the station at Ritson and CN line? There is no land unless you want to expropriate current housing, close Pereyma School, or close existing businesses along Bloor Street.
Again you are wrong, The economic analysis was done and is crystal clear. You can reject facts if you want to protect provincial party friends, but economic reality cannot be ignored.
Rosemary McConkey Lol Brian this has nothing to do with provincial party friends, I’ve never been enamoured with the CP line and I’m talking over 2 decades, having sold properties on Howard St and Albert and Fisher and Avenue St and the end of Verdun St ..being told since the late 80s a GO train line was coming through there. Just never was a fan… if another party was telling Oshawa what the Conservatives are saying now I’d still be saying get it done on the CN line! I met with former Mayor Henry 5 years ago and said this back then. And pointed where on Bloor are potential sites... and believe if we don’t give some options the City stands to be shut out. I may be the odd person on Council and have the wrath of those who want a unanimous vote to stand firm, but I’ll put my head above parapet for what I believe in.
Robert T Bell I agree the CN line would be a easier, faster, cheaper, & better build. It would have the bonus of opening up the GM brownfields for development.
We could get the gains mentioned in the CP study plus Many times more by taking the CN route
Rosemary McConkey And about the economic analysis with $150k +I economic analysis will say what the client want as they know what side their bread is being buttered on
Robert T Bell And the big thing in my mind is the study is 2016 - Oshawa has changed there is a huge new opportunity with maybe using GM lands
Rosemary McConkey And any expropriation would be substantially less than the cost of the bridge over the 401
Brian Nicholson Alibis, Rosemary, are not facts. Opinions are not facts. You are willing o accept the wrong plan for the sake of getting is done. That is the least acceptable reason to plan a transportation corridor. The wrong decision will cause negative ripples across our region for decades. We need to do it right not expediently
Brian Nicholson Building a route to nowhere is just an expense. Building the right route is an investment in the future.
Rosemary McConkey When I hear my colleagues say put it off until it’s done right I am more than a little dismayed We have a huge transit problem at the Thornton site and the 401 corridor is a nightmare for most commuter. This cannot be put off!!
Brian Nicholson Echoing the spin out of Queens Park is not an argument. The CN line with no additional stations in Oshawa offers no help to our gridlock.
All the elected representatives in Ward 5 (the location of both CP and CN lines) know that the CP line is the best option for our communities and our City. |
The Region supports the CP line.
Clarington supports the CP line.
Oshawa supports the CP line.
The Chamber of Commerce supports the CP line,
All economic analysts who have reviewed the data support the CP line.
Transportation professionals support the CP line.
Local business supports the CP line.
Those who want new housing support the CP line.
Those who want the 21,000 new jobs in Oshawa and the equivalent of 6000 job years of construction want the CP line.
Those tired of having to drive to out of the way stations want the CP line.
Those who are ready to invest billions in new development surrounding the preferred station sites want the CP line.
Those who want to see the new paycheques spent locally in our stores want the CP line.
Those who want local, regional, provincial taxes revenues to increase to pay down debt and increase services want the CP line.
The CN line is just another cost adding more debt to the pile.
We need jobs, investment and a future.
The CN line option offers neither.
Rosemary McConkey Again Brian, with respect, just because others ‘support’ something I happen not to favour doesn’t invalidate my opinion...
Brian Nicholson You are entitled to your own opinion. but not your own facts.
Mark Little The CNR route means two less stations for Durham. No matter what you think Rosemary, there is no damn room on the CNR line for another Oshawa station in the east... not without a lot of money spent .
Robert T Bell What about the Bloor & Wilson area especially the area south of the tracks. There are industrial & commercial lands that could be bought
James H Rogers and there was talk of an airport in Pickering back in 1972 .
Greg Anderson James H Rogers still is. Eventually.
Brian Nicholson Robert T Bell It is called having a vision of the future not just the next sale.
Robert T Bell I agree. A vision needs to see not only the known but also see potential not yet obvious.
Rosemary McConkey I appreciate having this discussion. I don’t think I ever told a property buyer this is the right property and this is the wrong one...what I’ve often said, as I’m sure other agents do when ‘the best laid plans of mice and men sometimes go astray’ ( as can happen when buyers or sellers change their minds , or mortgage rates or closing dates force budget or scheduling problems that can kill a deal…is ‘there is always another train’ There is another train corridor that is not a job killer. You’d think those thinking the CP line station at the Knob Hill site is the be all and end all ..to have people walking to it is as if they were talking about a subway stop. It is a train station! How can any member of Oshawa Council or the Chair of the Region ignore that the growth in the north, planned for over 75,000 new residents north of Conlin Rd. by 2031 won’t be walking to it. The current commuters and the ones coming aren’t going to be caught up in a Knob Hill station being the right and only location Oshawa should wait for, they will be saying what is the problem here, who has had their head stuck in the caboose on this issue?
Robert T Bell Good points & in case anyone is wondering Rosemary McConkey & I have never discussed this. Funny how we are coming to the same thoughts.
I think in both our cases our real estate experience trains us to see potential. I remember a late REALTOR (R) friend Delores Ross telling me of her days assembling land in Oshawa (& other areas too) in the 1960's for big Toronto developers. She talked about bringing a group down to Cedar Street south of Wentworth when it was mainly still farmland & hosting a picnic in the field. She told me they asked her what she saw. She pointed in the various directions & described detached houses, semis, apartments, & commercial. She was proud of the fact that it happened. Not all at once but step by step.
We need big picture out of the box thinking like that.
Brian Nicholson The fact that you see it only as a train station is stunning. It is far more than that. It is the best option we have to redevelop the south-central part of our city and to maximize industrial opportunities along Thornton and Consumers Roads. Your negativity on the future of our city and willingness to access crumbs from the table is also stunning in its lack of vision. You can see 70,000 new residents in your ward but nothing in the southern portion of the city. How myopic.
Robert T Bell I can see both happening. Of course we will also work on developing the entire city. But this is a potential new path that might speed up things & create dramatically more opportunities
Rosemary McConkey Brian I would not be working this job if I was negative about the City of Oshawa. I took it to see improvements made. The fact is the growth, development charges, building permit revenues and property taxes in the north is paying for a lot, and it helps all of the city. There is no need to make our difference of opinion here personal. I think considering reality is not myopic or accepting crumbs from the table or me being negative, the south central part of our city can be redeveloped in a better way than a transit hub, my vision for the future involves seeing opportunities a redevelopment of the Knob Hill site into something prestigious and unique. I don’t see any closed doors here. You want to narrow the view to the Knob Hill station as ‘the best’ ‘the only’ ‘the right’ option, well ‘stunning’ as you find my statements here, I am just as stunned by the entrenchment and anger of those stuck on what was promised possibly not happening, life is constant change which requires a strong need for the ability to adapt.
Greg Anderson Rosemary McConkey but that is the only thing that is keeping our city going. All we have is sprawl. That is the vision of our city. Maybe a veterinarian office a new dentist. really we have very few jobs that people can stay and work in town and not travel to the city. I get really envious when I see Mississauga, Brampton and Oakville. They have all the good paying jobs. That everyone is needing to travel for. I thought the extension to cp was crazy. But I do see it as the best way to bring jobs into the city.
Rosemary McConkey Ironic you should mention urban sprawl Greg.. I committed almost five years to battling the City and Region against sprawl to preserve the agricultural land north of the 407.. but now the reality is those 1800 acres will be redeveloped as in 2013 the City extended its urban boundary north of the 407 to Howden Rd. The 10 acre Knob Hill site has an owner who might be interested in putting in a specialized hospital or training centre ..or it could be aligned with a redevelopment of the GM properties not so far away to house film production companies, or a development centre for nanotechnology to name just a couple possibilities.
Brian Nicholson My comments are not personal. I am not challenging your passion but I am challenging your willingness to accept less. If we had that lack of vision, the neighbourhoods north of Taunton would still be farms and open space. Converting green space to residential is not as challenging as redeveloping old-style development into a new vision and new opportunity. I am not going to comment on your assertion regarding the north paying taxes, etc except to state that the historic communities south of Rossland and especially those south of King Street have been paying taxes and carrying this City for generations not months. We have more than paid our way and it is time that both the north and the south are seen as communities of the future. I have dedicated my entire adult life ( over 30 years) to fighting to renew and modernize southern Oshawa and have heard all the excuses time and again. We are not willing to accept crumbs from the table but we want our communities to receive the same services, respect and opportunities as the new communities in the north. The choice of the CN line disrespects our contribution and we will not accept it.
Greg Anderson Rosemary McConkey I am not discredited your accomplishment. Just sounded like it’s such an great thing that the city is putting all its eggs in one basket. With regards to housing. But I do get that the back and forth changing plans is costing everyone. Like you said its needs to be done now. People can’t make plans with there investment if things are not moving forward. Metrolix had this real big ambition to build up the transit system. So It should get done. The way I see it is it’s a stall tactic to get more funding. So much has already been put into the extension be stupid to change it now.
Rosemary McConkey Brian I have been a resident of the north for over 25 years and you in the south a bit longer. With the utmost sincerity I say to you there is no merit in us doing a north vs south tangle. We represent wards but we work for a City that needs to promote inclusion and diversity. We are two individuals who are interested and able to fight to better the City as a whole, not a single ward. Naturally we will diverge on many issues, but should never pit communities against each other.
Brian Nicholson Rosemary, you brought it up, not I.
"The fact is the growth, development charges, building permit revenues and property taxes in the north is paying for a lot, and it helps all of the city."
"How can any member of Oshawa Council or the Chair of the Region ignore that the growth in the north, planned for over 75,000 new residents north of Conlin Rd. by 2031 won’t be walking to it."
Rosemary McConkey Yes I stated a fact Brian, but you made the allegation that it was to the detriment of the southern portion of the city when you wrote “You can see 70,000 new residents in your ward but nothing in the southern portion of the city. How myopic.”. Anyhow thank you for having this discussion. See you Monday, some full Agendas eh? btw are you planning a Port of Oshawa working group committee meeting this week?
Brian Nicholson not at this time as no major changes have occurred since the last meeting. We are in a holding pattern until the Feds make their decision public. If you have any agenda items, you think we should consider, please let me know.
Rosemary McConkey just wonder if there is any update from the Hamilton Port Authority AGM May 2nd?
Brian Nicholson nothing that I am aware.
Considering the CN rail line vs. the CP rail line, after the four Metrolinx options for the Lakeshore East GO expansion, which were made public May 24, 2019 and forwarded to Ontario Transportation Minister Jeff Yurek for a decision:
I would like to thank Robert Bell for the discussion he opened on his Facebook page Friday May 24, 2019.
Below is an except, beginning from where I started commenting on Robert's page late Saturday, involving Robert, Brian Nicholson, Mark Little, Brent Regnier, James Rogers, and Greg Anderson, whose comments, with mine, are posted below:
I wanted to share our dialogue on my own blog and Facebook page because I believe, like many others, it is a matter very important to many Oshawa residents personally, and to the future of our City.
_____
Rosemary McConkey I am the only member of Council saying get it done and if the Province is planning a CN extension don’t have a hissy fit. Municipalities are creations of the Province and let's make the best of what seems to be in the works. Transit is about moving people, this ‘economic impact’ does not make a station on the CN line vs a CP line so inferior. Oshawa citizens need to not see this extension delayed and the CP line will be far off and crazy expensive. I heard just yesterday the cost of the bridge over the 4O1 will be in something like $500 million. Development of the Fittings property, Trent Durham, and the downtown is moving ahead... so some politicians may feel they lose face reversing their stand, reality is if we want jobs in Oshawa it's time to concentrate on getting business here and promote the Knob hill property as a site for something special, not a transit hub. Besides a station on Bloor near Ritson will increase property values south of the 401... instead of thinking the worse. look for new positives!!
Robert T Bell Yes size the opportunities as they come forth!
Brian Nicholson Seizing empty space leaves you with a handful of nothing.
Robert T Bell I is it empty space or an opportunity to build. He who hesitates is lost.
Mark Little The problem is Rosemary we were promised the CPR route from day one. People have been aware of this for a decade or more and the folks at Metrolinx have spent a lot of money on the Knob Hill property and other developers have followed suit.
Brent Regnier It's starting to appear that many here a somewhat stuck in a place of the past...not able to see the oppurtunitys that lay ahead…Mark who says we can only have two stations more can always be added.in the future! The south end needs development and a more dense city pays for its share of the line…so what if the jobs that come here are tech jobs or homes for folk that work in Toronto! Brian wants to stop the sprawl well then he wants higher density of population obviously and what better place to give him his wish than in his own ward! Win win fo4 everybody!
I would like to thank Robert Bell, Brent Regnier, Mark Little, Greg Anderson and Councillor Brian Nicholson for joining in this exchange of opinions Saturday evening. Our discussion follows from the recently released 4 Metrolinx options for the GO Lakeshore East extension. Robert started the thread yesterday, I joined in late, but spent considerable time commenting as this is obviously an important issue for Oshawa.
Brian Nicholson No, Rosemary, with respect, you are the only member of Council who would accept the wrong plan for our community. If you want to accept the loss of 21,000 spin-off jobs and over 6000 new residential units in Oshawa, that is your right. I want these jobs, I want these new units. I want to see growth and prosperity result from making the right choice for Oshawa and Clarington. I am tired of seeing Oshawa tax dollars spent in Mississauga, Toronto, Brampton and all other communities westward. We need to stand together as a team to demand that the promises made become the promises kept. Ford claims the "Ontario is open for business". It appears this means only if you live west of the Don Valley Expressway.
Robert T Bell Yes I could see even more opportunity, especially for south Oshawa, with the GM land CN route
Rosemary McConkey Thank you Brian and with respect there is no crystal ball that says jobs and growth will be lost with a GO station less than 1 kilometre south on the CN line... and we can have it within a much shorter time frame on the CN line rather than much longer or maybe never on the CP line
Brian Nicholson Rosemary, where is the site of the station at Ritson and CN line? There is no land unless you want to expropriate current housing, close Pereyma School, or close existing businesses along Bloor Street.
Again you are wrong, The economic analysis was done and is crystal clear. You can reject facts if you want to protect provincial party friends, but economic reality cannot be ignored.
Rosemary McConkey Lol Brian this has nothing to do with provincial party friends, I’ve never been enamoured with the CP line and I’m talking over 2 decades, having sold properties on Howard St and Albert and Fisher and Avenue St and the end of Verdun St ..being told since the late 80s a GO train line was coming through there. Just never was a fan… if another party was telling Oshawa what the Conservatives are saying now I’d still be saying get it done on the CN line! I met with former Mayor Henry 5 years ago and said this back then. And pointed where on Bloor are potential sites... and believe if we don’t give some options the City stands to be shut out. I may be the odd person on Council and have the wrath of those who want a unanimous vote to stand firm, but I’ll put my head above parapet for what I believe in.
Robert T Bell I agree the CN line would be a easier, faster, cheaper, & better build. It would have the bonus of opening up the GM brownfields for development.
We could get the gains mentioned in the CP study plus Many times more by taking the CN route
Rosemary McConkey And about the economic analysis with $150k +I economic analysis will say what the client want as they know what side their bread is being buttered on
Robert T Bell And the big thing in my mind is the study is 2016 - Oshawa has changed there is a huge new opportunity with maybe using GM lands
Rosemary McConkey And any expropriation would be substantially less than the cost of the bridge over the 401
Brian Nicholson Alibis, Rosemary, are not facts. Opinions are not facts. You are willing o accept the wrong plan for the sake of getting is done. That is the least acceptable reason to plan a transportation corridor. The wrong decision will cause negative ripples across our region for decades. We need to do it right not expediently
Brian Nicholson Building a route to nowhere is just an expense. Building the right route is an investment in the future.
Rosemary McConkey When I hear my colleagues say put it off until it’s done right I am more than a little dismayed We have a huge transit problem at the Thornton site and the 401 corridor is a nightmare for most commuter. This cannot be put off!!
Brian Nicholson Echoing the spin out of Queens Park is not an argument. The CN line with no additional stations in Oshawa offers no help to our gridlock.
All the elected representatives in Ward 5 (the location of both CP and CN lines) know that the CP line is the best option for our communities and our City. |
The Region supports the CP line.
Clarington supports the CP line.
Oshawa supports the CP line.
The Chamber of Commerce supports the CP line,
All economic analysts who have reviewed the data support the CP line.
Transportation professionals support the CP line.
Local business supports the CP line.
Those who want new housing support the CP line.
Those who want the 21,000 new jobs in Oshawa and the equivalent of 6000 job years of construction want the CP line.
Those tired of having to drive to out of the way stations want the CP line.
Those who are ready to invest billions in new development surrounding the preferred station sites want the CP line.
Those who want to see the new paycheques spent locally in our stores want the CP line.
Those who want local, regional, provincial taxes revenues to increase to pay down debt and increase services want the CP line.
The CN line is just another cost adding more debt to the pile.
We need jobs, investment and a future.
The CN line option offers neither.
Rosemary McConkey Again Brian, with respect, just because others ‘support’ something I happen not to favour doesn’t invalidate my opinion...
Brian Nicholson You are entitled to your own opinion. but not your own facts.
Mark Little The CNR route means two less stations for Durham. No matter what you think Rosemary, there is no damn room on the CNR line for another Oshawa station in the east... not without a lot of money spent .
Robert T Bell What about the Bloor & Wilson area especially the area south of the tracks. There are industrial & commercial lands that could be bought
James H Rogers and there was talk of an airport in Pickering back in 1972 .
Greg Anderson James H Rogers still is. Eventually.
Brian Nicholson Robert T Bell It is called having a vision of the future not just the next sale.
Robert T Bell I agree. A vision needs to see not only the known but also see potential not yet obvious.
Rosemary McConkey I appreciate having this discussion. I don’t think I ever told a property buyer this is the right property and this is the wrong one...what I’ve often said, as I’m sure other agents do when ‘the best laid plans of mice and men sometimes go astray’ ( as can happen when buyers or sellers change their minds , or mortgage rates or closing dates force budget or scheduling problems that can kill a deal…is ‘there is always another train’ There is another train corridor that is not a job killer. You’d think those thinking the CP line station at the Knob Hill site is the be all and end all ..to have people walking to it is as if they were talking about a subway stop. It is a train station! How can any member of Oshawa Council or the Chair of the Region ignore that the growth in the north, planned for over 75,000 new residents north of Conlin Rd. by 2031 won’t be walking to it. The current commuters and the ones coming aren’t going to be caught up in a Knob Hill station being the right and only location Oshawa should wait for, they will be saying what is the problem here, who has had their head stuck in the caboose on this issue?
Robert T Bell Good points & in case anyone is wondering Rosemary McConkey & I have never discussed this. Funny how we are coming to the same thoughts.
I think in both our cases our real estate experience trains us to see potential. I remember a late REALTOR (R) friend Delores Ross telling me of her days assembling land in Oshawa (& other areas too) in the 1960's for big Toronto developers. She talked about bringing a group down to Cedar Street south of Wentworth when it was mainly still farmland & hosting a picnic in the field. She told me they asked her what she saw. She pointed in the various directions & described detached houses, semis, apartments, & commercial. She was proud of the fact that it happened. Not all at once but step by step.
We need big picture out of the box thinking like that.
Brian Nicholson The fact that you see it only as a train station is stunning. It is far more than that. It is the best option we have to redevelop the south-central part of our city and to maximize industrial opportunities along Thornton and Consumers Roads. Your negativity on the future of our city and willingness to access crumbs from the table is also stunning in its lack of vision. You can see 70,000 new residents in your ward but nothing in the southern portion of the city. How myopic.
Robert T Bell I can see both happening. Of course we will also work on developing the entire city. But this is a potential new path that might speed up things & create dramatically more opportunities
Rosemary McConkey Brian I would not be working this job if I was negative about the City of Oshawa. I took it to see improvements made. The fact is the growth, development charges, building permit revenues and property taxes in the north is paying for a lot, and it helps all of the city. There is no need to make our difference of opinion here personal. I think considering reality is not myopic or accepting crumbs from the table or me being negative, the south central part of our city can be redeveloped in a better way than a transit hub, my vision for the future involves seeing opportunities a redevelopment of the Knob Hill site into something prestigious and unique. I don’t see any closed doors here. You want to narrow the view to the Knob Hill station as ‘the best’ ‘the only’ ‘the right’ option, well ‘stunning’ as you find my statements here, I am just as stunned by the entrenchment and anger of those stuck on what was promised possibly not happening, life is constant change which requires a strong need for the ability to adapt.
Greg Anderson Rosemary McConkey but that is the only thing that is keeping our city going. All we have is sprawl. That is the vision of our city. Maybe a veterinarian office a new dentist. really we have very few jobs that people can stay and work in town and not travel to the city. I get really envious when I see Mississauga, Brampton and Oakville. They have all the good paying jobs. That everyone is needing to travel for. I thought the extension to cp was crazy. But I do see it as the best way to bring jobs into the city.
Rosemary McConkey Ironic you should mention urban sprawl Greg.. I committed almost five years to battling the City and Region against sprawl to preserve the agricultural land north of the 407.. but now the reality is those 1800 acres will be redeveloped as in 2013 the City extended its urban boundary north of the 407 to Howden Rd. The 10 acre Knob Hill site has an owner who might be interested in putting in a specialized hospital or training centre ..or it could be aligned with a redevelopment of the GM properties not so far away to house film production companies, or a development centre for nanotechnology to name just a couple possibilities.
Brian Nicholson My comments are not personal. I am not challenging your passion but I am challenging your willingness to accept less. If we had that lack of vision, the neighbourhoods north of Taunton would still be farms and open space. Converting green space to residential is not as challenging as redeveloping old-style development into a new vision and new opportunity. I am not going to comment on your assertion regarding the north paying taxes, etc except to state that the historic communities south of Rossland and especially those south of King Street have been paying taxes and carrying this City for generations not months. We have more than paid our way and it is time that both the north and the south are seen as communities of the future. I have dedicated my entire adult life ( over 30 years) to fighting to renew and modernize southern Oshawa and have heard all the excuses time and again. We are not willing to accept crumbs from the table but we want our communities to receive the same services, respect and opportunities as the new communities in the north. The choice of the CN line disrespects our contribution and we will not accept it.
Greg Anderson Rosemary McConkey I am not discredited your accomplishment. Just sounded like it’s such an great thing that the city is putting all its eggs in one basket. With regards to housing. But I do get that the back and forth changing plans is costing everyone. Like you said its needs to be done now. People can’t make plans with there investment if things are not moving forward. Metrolix had this real big ambition to build up the transit system. So It should get done. The way I see it is it’s a stall tactic to get more funding. So much has already been put into the extension be stupid to change it now.
Rosemary McConkey Brian I have been a resident of the north for over 25 years and you in the south a bit longer. With the utmost sincerity I say to you there is no merit in us doing a north vs south tangle. We represent wards but we work for a City that needs to promote inclusion and diversity. We are two individuals who are interested and able to fight to better the City as a whole, not a single ward. Naturally we will diverge on many issues, but should never pit communities against each other.
Brian Nicholson Rosemary, you brought it up, not I.
"The fact is the growth, development charges, building permit revenues and property taxes in the north is paying for a lot, and it helps all of the city."
"How can any member of Oshawa Council or the Chair of the Region ignore that the growth in the north, planned for over 75,000 new residents north of Conlin Rd. by 2031 won’t be walking to it."
Rosemary McConkey Yes I stated a fact Brian, but you made the allegation that it was to the detriment of the southern portion of the city when you wrote “You can see 70,000 new residents in your ward but nothing in the southern portion of the city. How myopic.”. Anyhow thank you for having this discussion. See you Monday, some full Agendas eh? btw are you planning a Port of Oshawa working group committee meeting this week?
Brian Nicholson not at this time as no major changes have occurred since the last meeting. We are in a holding pattern until the Feds make their decision public. If you have any agenda items, you think we should consider, please let me know.
Rosemary McConkey just wonder if there is any update from the Hamilton Port Authority AGM May 2nd?
Brian Nicholson nothing that I am aware.